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Investigation & Fraud News – Week ending 11 July 2025
ADF whistleblower breaks 15-year silence on sexual abuse cover-up – 7 July 2025
Women who speak up about sexual abuse and harassment should be supported, not silenced. Unfortunately, Australian laws are failing people who blow the whistle. On 60 Minutes and 9Fairfax, multiple women spoke about abuse in the Australian Defence Force (ADF), including Julia Delaforce who shared that in 2010 she was sexually harassed at knifepoint in a NSW military base by a drunken, machete-wielding senior male corporal. She was then instructed by her superiors to drive her assailant home. The Human Rights Law Centre’s Whistleblower Project is Australia’s first dedicated legal service to help people come forward and speak out when they witness or experience wrongdoing and harm. They also advocate for stronger laws and a National Whistleblower Protection Authority.
https://www.hrlc.org.au/updates/adf-whistleblower-breaks-15-year-silence-on-sexual-abuse-cover-up/
Media monitoring firm iSentia accused of tax evasion by Thai police – 8 July 2025
Thai police arrested the former Asia chief executive of iSentia, David Liu, in June over suspected tax evasion of up to 5.2 million baht ($246,000). He denied wrongdoing, the Bangkok Post reported. iSentia says the proceedings are “without foundation” and it is confident they will be dismissed. This was two months after the major media monitoring provider signed a lucrative contract with the Australian Taxation Office.
Why that ‘local’ store closing down sale might be a total scam – 8 July 2025
Australians are increasingly falling victim to sophisticated online shopping scams known as “ghost stores”: fake websites designed to look like legitimate retailers, often selling high-end fashion at attractive prices. These sites are powered by AI, built to mimic genuine e-commerce platforms with polished branding, glowing fake reviews, and seamless checkout experiences. The consumer watchdog estimates it has received at least 360 reports about 60 online retailers since the start of 2025.
A Whistleblower Protection Authority for Australia – 9 July 2025
Polling conducted by The Australia Institute in collaboration with the Human Rights Law Centre and Whistleblower Justice Fund shows that 84% of Australians support the introduction of a Whistleblower Protection Authority, and only 5% oppose. As recognised by whistleblowing experts, the Whistleblower Protection Authority Bill 2025 (No.2) would represent a step forward for whistleblower protections, and the integrity arm of government more broadly.
https://australiainstitute.org.au/report/a-whistleblower-protection-authority-for-australia/
German arrested on Koh Phangan for investment fraud targeting Australians – 9 July 2025
A 54-year-old German has been arrested on Koh Phangan for allegedly orchestrating a fraudulent investment scheme targeting investors in Australia. Police found scripted dialogue used to dupe investors in Australia into making fake stock investments and detailed records of victims. Muang police station in Pathum Thani have undertaken the legal processing on the fraud charges. Surat Thani police would bring additional charges against him under the Foreign Business Act, Pol.
Police seeking ‘piranhas’ involved in $3 million blessing scams – 9 July 2025
Seven “predators” are believed to have fled to China after robbing huge amounts of money” and jewellery in a so-called spiritual blessings scam in NSW. Spiritual blessing scams are where victims are coerced into placing cash and jewellery in a bag, and told the bag needs to be blessed by a spiritual healer before it is returned empty. Two people have been charged in Australia and a third is in custody in New Zealand, the force added, after more than 80 instances of the scam in Sydney, with more than $3 million in cash and valuables stolen.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/police-seeking-piranhas-involved-in-3m-blessing-scams/zfy6xdh50
Former radio host sues over 2012 royal prank – 9 July 2025
Southern Cross Austereo (SCA) is facing legal action from a former radio host who was involved in a controversial royal prank call back in 2012. Michael Christian is suing SCA under the Fair Work Act, the Corporations Act as a whistleblower, and under Common Law for breach of contract. Christian is now suing the network, accusing SCA of not immediately taking public accountability for the incident and allegedly leaving him and Mel Greig (the other radio host) to be the “scapegoats”, according to a statement from his lawyers. The former host claims he was assured by SCA that his career would be protected and restored if he remained silent. Instead, he alleges, his former employer was “gradually marginalising” him within the business over the past 13 years.
CBA worker fired over alleged fraudulent transactions disputes sacking – 9 July 2025
A Commonwealth Bank employee has sought to dispute the termination of his employment, claiming that the major bank unfairly dismissed him. The worker alleges that he was fired after raising two disputes pertaining to his personal bank account, which is assigned with CBA. According to the worker, CBA accused him of making “false disputes in an attempt to gain financial benefit”. He claimed that he made these disputes purely as a customer of the bank – submitted that it had nothing to do with his ongoing employment.
Parents of Klemzig early learning centre speak out amid investigation – 9 July 2025
Some parents say they have no concerns with an Adelaide early learning site at the centre of an investigation while others are considering removing their children.
The Little Shining Stars Early Learning Centre said it had amended some of its policies and procedures.
The Education Standards Board has also listed a handful of childcare centres and a school for failing to comply with different provisions of the national regulations.
Junior doctor charged after camera found in staff bathroom at Melbourne hospital – 10 July 2025
Victorian detectives have charged a trainee surgeon with stalking after his colleagues found a camera allegedly recording them in a staff toilet at a major Melbourne hospital. The junior doctor, who is employed at The Austin Hospital, is also charged with using an optical surveillance device, after investigators raided his home in Heidelberg West.
Defence accuses ex-detective of bungled investigation into Gareth Ward assault allegations – 10 July 2025
The former detective who led a sexual assault investigation into NSW MP Gareth Ward has admitted to breaching a court order by arriving hours late to give evidence, prompting sharp criticism from the defence. He was also grilled over investigative delays and accused by the defence of failing to pursue key lines of inquiry. The former officer’s cross-examination is expected to continue.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-10/gareth-ward-trial-detective-cross-examination/105518436
TikTok investigated by European regulators over users’ personal data being stored in China – 10 July 2025
The European data regulator has opened another investigation into social media platform TikTok. The Data Protection Commission said the video sharing platform admitted to holding “limited” personal data of European users on servers in China. TikTok told AFP in May that it had notified the regulator of an issue regarding personal data transfers.
Port Douglas front and centre in huge national super fund investigation – 10 July 2025
Port Douglas is at the heart of a significant national investigation into the Shield Master Fund, a superannuation investment scheme that has allegedly misused hundreds of millions of dollars. ASIC is leading one of its largest inquiries, involving approximately 40 specialist investigators, into the fund’s operations. The investigation centers on the planned $300 million Fairmont Resort in Port Douglas, which, despite never receiving approval from the Douglas Shire Council and remaining in the pre-development stage, reportedly received over $100 million in loans from the Shield Master Fund before its collapse in 2024.
Fraud, friction, and the future: Prioritising trust in a high-stakes market – 11 July 2025
Because of rising regulatory scrutiny, growing public vigilance regarding digital threats, and fast-evolving technologies, finding ways to establish consumer trust has become a key topic in Australia’s boardroom. According to our 2025 Safety in numbers report that outlines trust and safety investment trends, Australian business leaders are “walking the talk”, with 52% saying they intend to significantly increase their investment in fraud detection over the next 12 months. Paper outlines the new initiatives or corporates are undertaking.
Alleged sex offender Joshua Dale Brown filled in as cook at childcare centre just days before police charges – 11 July 2025
A Melbourne childcare worker filled in as a cook and prepared meals for children just days before police charged him with contaminating food with his bodily fluids, along with dozens of sex offences. Mr Brown is now facing more than 70 charges.
Investigation & Fraud News – Week ending 4 July 2025
Financial consultant ordered to live with parents before trial over sexual assaults, bad cheques – 27 June 2025
Mark Steven Sarian pleaded not guilty to 49 charges, including 38 counts of sexual intercourse without consent. He is accused of paying sex workers with dishonoured cheques and failed bank transfers. Mr Sarian was handed strict bail conditions including to not leave his parents’ home unless for reasons such as work, medical or legal appointments.
Police sound alarm after scams using cryptocurrency ATMs send Australians to the wall – 29 June 2025
Police are sounding the alarm across the country, including in the ACT, and warning of scams involving the use of cryptocurrency ATMs. Over 2024, the Australian Signals Directorate’s ReportCyber received 150 reports about cryptocurrency ATM-related scams, with losses exceeding $3 million.
ASIC’s banning actions against advisers in FY25 – 30 June 2025
With a busy financial year, ASIC took action against numerous individuals during the period, including permanent banning’s and enforcement action against dishonest conduct. Article summaries the ASIC banning activity during the financial year.
Fair Work non-compliance rife among farm labour providers in Adelaide Hills and Riverland – 30 June 2025
A Fair Work Ombudsman report has found “several” Adelaide Hills labour hire providers have not paid workers’ their superannuation. The report also found 92 per cent of labour hire providers audited in South Australia were non-compliant.
Agencies involved in a task force investigating illegal “phoenix” businesses are continuing their investigations.
Man facing trial for hundreds of fraud charges allegedly committed against quadriplegic friend – 1 July 2025
A trial has heard a man with quadriplegia was devastated when he realised his bank account had nothing in it, after an alleged fraud by a friend. Jonathan Maher is facing hundreds of charges after he allegedly took the money from the man’s account — some as cash and some in purchases. Mr Maher’s trial is continuing in the ACT Supreme Court.
Creating a federal whistleblower authorit for public interest disclosures – 1 July 2025
Public interest disclosure needs more than principles — it needs protection. The recently released report from Transparency International Australia, the Human Rights Law Centre and Griffith University, ‘A Fair Go for Speaking Up: Design Principles for Australia’s Federal Whistleblower Authority’, is a sore reminder about the critical absence of an agency able to aid those interested in making public interest disclosures.
Fresh DNA’ sparks investigation into 1987 murder of Bundaberg taxi driver Bryan Hodgkinson – 2 July 2025
Queensland police are offering a $500,000 reward for information into the cold case murder of Bundaberg taxi driver Bryan Hodgkinson, with fresh DNA evidence leading to a new line of inquiry. Detective Senior Sergeant Tara Kentwell said Hodgkinson’s murder can still be solved, “irrespective of the passage of time” due to ‘new and enhanced forensic testing of exhibits seized’.
Treasury prepares to crack down on audit firms, with or without ASIC – 2 July 2025
Treasury is considering handing the corporate regulator the power to punish major audit and consulting firms for the first time, as part of a crackdown on the sector proposed after PwC was caught circulating confidential government tax details to promote its services.
UK Crown Prosecution Service considers further charges against killer nurse Lucy Letby – 3 July 2025
Prosecutors are considering bringing further charges against nurse Lucy Letby over allegations relating to deaths and other incidents at hospitals where she worked. Letby, 35, is serving life in jail after being found guilty of murdering seven newborns and attempting to kill eight more at a neonatal unit in a hospital in nothern England. Police said they were investigating whether she had committed further crimes, and the Crown Prosecution Service said it was now examining the evidence.
Australian banks roll out name-matching technology to combat scams – 3 July 2025
To curb rising scam threats, Australian banks have begun the rollout of the industry-wide security feature Confirmation of Payee (CoP), a name-matching solution designed to reduce fraud and mistaken payments. The initiative, developed by Australian Payments Plus (AP+), forms part of the Australian Banking Association’s (ABA) Scam-Safe Accord. Under the system, customers entering a BSB and account number during a payment transaction will be shown whether the name they have entered matches the one held by the receiving bank. This added verification step is designed to flag inconsistencies before funds are transferred.
First Guardian collapse leaves thousands at risk of losing super as ASIC freezes director assets – 4 July 2025
A Melbourne man, was contacted by a financial advisory company called Venture Egg, which convinced him to roll his super savings from ANZ into a super fund called AusPrac. He then found out his super money was being channelled into “a cash hub” controlled by the directors of a managed investment scheme, called First Guardian Master Fund. He is now among 6,000 Australians who invested $590 million with First Guardian, which collapsed earlier this year, and which is currently under investigation by the corporate watchdog, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC).
Qantas executives slow to be seen after data breach affecting up to 6 million customers – 4 July 2025
More than 6 million Qantas customers received a personalised email, signed by the chief executive, informing them that cyber criminals had scaled the company’s defences. The first email outlined fears that the airline’s database containing personal information had been hacked and, your name might be on it. For those receiving the follow-up email, it was confirmation their name, email, phone number and frequent flyer number had also been unlawfully accessed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-03/naus_qantascybernr_0307/105491200
Investigation & Fraud News – Week ending 27 June 2025
Ballarat Grammar launches third investigation into boys’ boarding houses – 23 June 2025
Ballarat Grammer (BGS) has launched its third investigation in five months into allegations of “serious misconduct” in its boys’ boarding houses. In a letter to parents today, the school said over the past fortnight new information had “come to light”, and it would now begin an investigation. BGS said through investigations it had become clear that a “broader cultural shift was also needed”.
Aussie loses $320,000 to chilling threat and extortion scam – 23 June 2025
A 30-year-old was initially told her credit card had been used in an attempt to buy drugs online and she would be transferred to the police to make a report. The scammers, posing as Chinese police, then accused her of being part of a criminal syndicate responsible for a large scale money laundering operation. To avoid jail, she had to agree to be under 24/7 surveillance and not tell anyone about her situation. She has been left traumatised after being kept under surveillance for two months and ultimately losing her lifesavings.
Year in review: international investigations in Australia – 23 June 2025
Article summarises key legislative changes over the past year in relation to corporate misconduct.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9edce233-0371-4135-9bc8-e7ec655bdd16
ASIC cautions licensees on share fraud – 24 June 2025
The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) has issued updated guidance for Australian financial services (AFS) licensees following an increase in reports of stolen shares due to identity theft. The new guidance, Information Sheet 237 Protecting against share sale fraud (INFO 237), outlines better practices for licensee prevention and detection of share sale fraud.
https://smsmagazine.com.au/news/2025/06/24/asic-cautions-licensees-on-share-fraud/
Workplace surveillance could be changing – what do employers need to know? – 24 June 2025
Workplace surveillance is becoming more sophisticated and widespread, but the laws that govern it haven’t kept pace. From AI monitoring tools to wearable trackers and biometrics, new technologies are being deployed in workplaces across many industries, yet there is little regulation on how and when employers can use them.
Police’s new weapon to crack open cold cases – 24 June 2025
NSW Police are using ground breaking technology to solve crimes. More than 145,000 unsolved cases, from break and enters, to some of the state’s longest standing, most baffling unsolved murders, could soon be solved now that police officers can match prints from the phalange area of the hand – the part between the tip and the palm.
Fraud victims among top crypto ATM users, Australian regulator say – 25 June 2025
AUSTRAC has identified 90 top crypto ATM users in Australia as scam victims, money mules, or suspects in a nationwide crackdown on crypto-related crime. Most flagged transactions involved victims, including a woman in her 70s who lost over A$430,000. Regulatory scrutiny of crypto ATMs and exchanges is intensifying.
Sophisticated scams rise in the dark side of AI’s explosion – 25 June 2025
The Australian Signals Directorate, the government agency overseeing the nation’s cybersecurity, warns that AI presents risks such as malicious actors using AI tools to expand their activities, including using generative AI to produce low-effort, high-quality material for phishing attacks. Automated tools such as “Fraud GPT” can scrape sites where software developers store, manage and collaborate on computer code for weaknesses. They can also automatically generate small payloads of malware for use in a cyberattack.
Council refers fraud investigation to police – 25 June 2025
An investigation into potential fraud at a council has been referred to the police. In April, Newcastle City Council began investigating possible fraudulent activity within the council’s transport department. The local authority confirmed that the “financial irregularities” are understood to relate to potential over claiming involving an unconfirmed number of employees.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/council-refers-fraud-investigation-police-114735920.html
Privacy resilience: Why compliance alone won’t cut it in 2025 – 26 June 2025
Privacy is everyone’s Business – it is not just the job of privacy professionals or IT departments. It’s a shared responsibility across all sectors of society. This means privacy can no longer be viewed as an isolated function. It must be embedded into every part of the organisation, from boardroom strategy to day-to-day decision-making. Paper explains that it requires aligned governance, risk awareness, training and, most importantly, culture.
https://securitybrief.com.au/story/privacy-resilience-why-compliance-alone-won-t-cut-it-in-2025
Corruption and Crime Commission to probe how Floreat gunman Mark Bombara legally owned firearms – 25 June 2025
WA’s corruption watchdog is investigating police failings that allowed Mark Bombara to legally own firearms used in a double murder-suicide. The agency claims Bombara’s collector’s handgun licence, renewed in 2009, should not have been approved, and police missed opportunities to revoke it.
New firearm legislation is being introduced in WA to prevent similar cases, tightening rules around firearm ownership and licence eligibility.
Convicted drug dealer had same private ATMs as used in illegal tobacco shops – 27 June 2025
Peter Wellman James was sentenced to 12 years in prison in 2022 for supplying a commercial quantity of cannabis. Despite having a drug conviction, James had been able to own and operate a business called atm2go Darwin using private ATMs. The machines provided not just a cover for cash possession, but offered an opportunity for money laundering, with evidence given in court that cash from the drug dealing was to be loaded into the ATMs. Customers can unwittingly withdraw that dirty cash from the ATM and the cash that started out as proceeds of crime, now appears as legitimate funds in the ATM owner’s bank account.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-27/darwin-drug-dealer-atm-illegal-tobacco/105459052
Investigation & Fraud News – Week ending 20 June 2025
Italian osteopath practising in Canberra sexually assaulted patient, civil tribunal finds – 5 June 2025
The ACT Civil and Administrative Tribunal (ACAT) has found an osteopath engaged in serious professional misconduct in Canberra in 2022. Italian citizen Daniele Caminiti was found to have sexually assaulted a patient before boarding a flight to Italy just days after his workplace began an investigation and a subsequent police report was made. Mr Caminiti’s registration as a health practitioner in Australia has been cancelled but ACAT says the osteopath is practising in Italy.
AUDIO: PNG anti-corruption body facing collapse – 6 June 2025
Papua New Guinea’s anti-corruption agency has an enormous job, fighting crimes believed to cost the country more than a billion dollars a year. But since it was formed… the organisation has spent much of its time investigating its own commissioners. All three of them have levelled criminal allegations at each other … and senior staff warn the organisation is on the brink of implosion.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-06/png-anti-corruption-body-facing-collapse/105384842
Ombudsman finds ACT Policing escalated some cases involving use of force – 10 June 2025
A review of cases involving the use of force by police in the ACT has found situations are being unnecessarily escalated by the “unprofessional behaviour” of officers. The ACT Ombudsman analysed more than 6,200 use-of-force and viewed 200 clips of body-worn camera vision and CCTV vision. The investigation had uncovered cases where the police response had “unnecessarily inflamed situations”, resulting in poor outcomes.
More than 250kg of cocaine found in Brisbane shipping container as police foil $82 million drug plot – 10 June 2025
Authorities have seized 253 kilograms of cocaine from a shipping container during a screening operation. The shipment, worth an estimated $82 million, was found after a tip-off. The Australian Federal Police have launched an investigation.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-10/brisbane-cocaine-drug-bust-shipping-container/105400026
Department of Justice investigation into public servant’s hiring of 17yo relative deemed ‘inadequate’ – 10 June 2025
A Department of Justice investigation into allegations a senior public servant hired a 17-year-old family member and allowed them to skip the queue for government-funded housing has been described as “wholly inadequate” by the Corruption and Crime Commission’s Parliamentary Inspector Matthew Zilko.
The allegations included the public servant hiring the teenage family member without declaring a conflict of interest.
The case won’t be reopened and the Shadow Attorney-General Nick Goiran has called on the parliament’s Joint Standing Committee on the CCC to consider Mr Zilko’s recommendations.
Millions of Australians could miss out on refunds from financial misconduct – 11 June 2025
Over a 29-year period, it is estimated that more than 10 million add-on insurance products were sold in Australia, valued at billions of dollars, some believe it could be as high as $10 billion. The products became a symbol of the financial misconduct exposed during the banking royal commission. Many people may be entitled to compensation but a looming deadline of June 30 could see many miss out.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-11/financial-misconduct-refunds-asic-junk-insurance/105366636
Boss of Australian pokies giant Ainsworth Game Technology under investigation for alleged corruption in Austria – 12 June 2025
Harald Neumann, chief executive of Australian pokies giant Ainsworth Game Technology (AGT), is under investigation over alleged corruption involving far-right politicians in Austria. AGT had not publicly disclosed the investigation involving its CEO but said it had disclosed the matter to regulators. Mr Neumann has strenuously denied the allegations. The company said all but one corruption inquiry involving Mr Neumann had been “dismissed” and it expected the remaining investigation would go the same way.
Second match fix scandal hits Australian soccer – 12 June 2025
The Socceroos’ World Cup qualification has given Football Australia something to celebrate this week but the governing body is also grappling with its second match fixing scandal in 12 months. Victoria Police last week filed charges against a Western United A-League player – one year after three players from Macarthur Football Club in Sydney were charged with similar offences.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-12/second-match-fix-scandal-hits-australian-soccer/105406466
Lawyer for institutional abuse victims ordered to pay $263,000 to client – 15 June 2025
A Melbourne lawyer renowned for her advocacy for institutional abuse survivors has lost a landmark trial in the Supreme Court, which found her firm’s “extraordinarily defensive” approach had significantly reduced a client’s compensation. Dr Vivian Waller and her law firm, Waller Legal, face more than 20 legal cases from other disgruntled clients, who allege they received negligent representation that potentially cost them millions of dollars in settlement payouts.
Ombudsman criticises ACT Integrity Commission for awarding $150,000 consulting contract to then-CEO – 17 June 2025
The ACT Ombudsman has found the territory’s corruption watchdog did not comply with its own inherent purpose to effectively manage conflicts of interest after an investigation into a $150,000 contract awarded to it’s then-CEO. In his report, Ombudsman Iain Anderson said the ACT Integrity Commission risked undermining public confidence if it did not demonstrate integrity and probity in its procurement practices. The integrity agency said it did not accept that it breached its requirements, and has rejected two of the three recommendations made by the ombudsman.
VIDEO: IVF clinics under the microscope – 18 June 2025
Every year, Australians are relying on IVF to start their families but after two high-profile bungles at Monash IVF clinics, the industry has come under pressure. It’s prompted a national investigation into the sector.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-18/ivf-clinics-under-the-microscope/105434502
Macquarie Group company’s private ATMs are helping fuel the illegal tobacco trade – 18 June 2025
An ABC investigation has found that the prestigious Australian-founded Macquarie Group is raking in dollars from the nation’s booming illegal tobacco trade. At the centre of the deal is the provision of networks of privately owned cash-dispensing ATMs that have been placed in tobacconists despite their links to criminals and blatant illegal sales activities. The arrangements — which in some cases allow shop owners to load their own cash into the machine — highlight a regulatory black hole facilitating tax avoidance and money laundering, according to experts.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-18/macquarie-group-next-atm-illegal-tobacco-trade/105399234
Jury to decide if Erin Patterson is telling the truth in mushroom trial – 20 June 2025
For two months, the jury inside the Supreme Court in Morwell has been trying to separate fact from fiction. The jury is being asked to determine if Erin Patterson murdered her estranged husband Simon’s parents, Don and Gail Patterson, his aunt Heather Wilkinson and tried to murder Heather’s husband Ian Wilkinson by feeding them all a lunch containing poisonous death cap mushrooms at her home in Leongatha in July 2023.
Three died, only Heather’s husband Ian survived. Simon was invited but declined the night before. Erin Patterson has maintained her innocence from the outset and says their deaths were a tragic accident.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-19/jury-to-decide-if-erin-patterson-is-telling-the/105439494
Multiple ‘imitation’ firearms found in George Town home by Tasmania police – 20 June 2025
A 40-year-old George Town man has been charged with multiple offences after the seizure of 16 illegal firearms, including a collection of replica weapons. Police say the guns, including imitation sniper rifles and assault rifles, were found after officers saw “items of interest” through a window on the property. The man will face court at a later date.
Kumanjayi White: McCarthy renews support for independent probe – 20 June 2025
Indigenous deaths in custody will be in the spotlight at the Joint Council for Closing the Gap in Darwin. It comes as the Australian Human Rights Commission says 12 Aboriginal people have died in custody so far this year. Meanwhile, there are increasing calls for an independent inquiry into the death of Kumanjayi White in the Northern Territory last month. Malarndirri McCarthy, Minister for Indigenous Australians and Senator for NT is interviewed.
